ارجو المساعده

[افضل العمرين]

السلام عليكم اخوتي واخواتي في هذا المنتدى الكريم
اتمنى مساعدتي في بعض المسائل العالقة
في حواري مع فتاة امريكية نصرانية وهي مسيحية متشددة عن الاسلام والمسيحية
ذكرت احدى الشبهات عن الاسلام واللتي تقول انه المرتد عن الاسلام يقتل
فتذكرت انه في احدى جولاتي قديما على منتداكم المحترم قرات ردودا ان الانجيل يهدر دم من يرتد عن المسيحية
لكني لقلة اطلاعي وعدم معرفتي الكاملة بالانجيل لم اجد النص اللذي يؤكد هذه الحقيقة
اتمنى من اعضاء هذا المنتدى ارشادي لهذا النص ويفضل ان يكون باللغة الانجليزية لاضعه في ردي على هذه الفتاة
شاكر لكم تعاونكم واستقبالي بينكم
السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

[د/مسلمة]

أختي الفاضلة قد يساعدك هذا الرابط عن حد الردة في النصرانية

http://www.answeringchristianity.net/sami_zaatri/law_of_apostacy_in_the_bible.htm

ليس لدي وقت الآن وإلا كنت لخصته لكِ

هل تستطعين التعامل معه أم ألخصه لكِ في صورة رد؟

[افضل العمرين]

اشكرك على ردك السريع وتعاونك اختي ساقرا الرابط واحاول قدر استطاعتي تلخيص المعلومات منه لارد على الزميلة النصرانية
اشكرك اختي وبارك الله فيكي

[MrWyvern]

السلام عليكم اخوتي واخواتي في هذا المنتدى الكريم
اتمنى مساعدتي في بعض المسائل العالقة
في حواري مع فتاة امريكية نصرانية وهي مسيحية متشددة عن الاسلام والمسيحية
ذكرت احدى الشبهات عن الاسلام واللتي تقول انه المرتد عن الاسلام يقتل
فتذكرت انه في احدى جولاتي قديما على منتداكم المحترم قرات ردودا ان الانجيل يهدر دم من يرتد عن المسيحية
لكني لقلة اطلاعي وعدم معرفتي الكاملة بالانجيل لم اجد النص اللذي يؤكد هذه الحقيقة
اتمنى من اعضاء هذا المنتدى ارشادي لهذا النص ويفضل ان يكون باللغة الانجليزية لاضعه في ردي على هذه الفتاة
شاكر لكم تعاونكم واستقبالي بينكم
السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته



These are the quotes from their book:

Deuteronomy
Chapter 13
KJV

1 If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, 2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; 3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him. 5 And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the LORD thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee.



6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; 7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; 8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: 9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. 10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. 11 And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you.



12 If thou shalt hear say in one of thy cities, which the LORD thy God hath given thee to dwell there, saying, 13 Certain men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known; 14 Then shalt thou inquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you; 15 Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword. 16 And thou shalt gather all the spoil of it into the midst of the street thereof, and shalt burn with fire the city, and all the spoil thereof every whit, for the LORD thy God: and it shall be an heap for ever; it shall not be built again. 17 And there shall cleave nought of the cursed thing to thine hand: that the LORD may turn from the fierceness of his anger, and show thee mercy, and have compassion upon thee, and multiply thee, as he hath sworn unto thy fathers; 18 When thou shalt hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep all his commandments which I command thee this day, to do that which is right in the eyes of the LORD thy God.

May Allah reward you.
Your Junior brother

[افضل العمرين]

قمت بلصق الرابط اللي وضعته الاخت د مسلمة وكان رد النصرانية كما يلي
This is the Old Testament and is not Christianity. Christianity is living as Christ - Christlikeness. This is the Old Covenant - the blood of Jesus brought the New Covenant. You completely misunderstand Christianity altogether. You must read the New Testament to understand the Old Testament and why God created Jesus to be the Messiah.

فقمت بوضع رد الاخ مستر وايفرن بانتظار ردها عليه
thank u my brother for your help

[أبو حفص الأيوبي]

يمكنكِ دعوتها هنا أختى الفاضلة للحوار حول أى مسألة سواء في الإسلام أو المسيحية, وطبعاً سيكون الحوار باللغة الإنجليزية

and here is the direct link for Kalemasawa'a in English
http://www.kalemasawaa.com/vb/f18.html

and we are here if you prefer to continue dealing with her via mail

may Allah bless you sister for your good deeds

[أبو حفص الأيوبي]

I'm sorry, i didn't see this till now

This is the Old Testament and is not Christianity. Christianity is living as Christ - Christlikeness. This is the Old Covenant - the blood of Jesus brought the New Covenant. You completely misunderstand Christianity altogether. You must read the New Testament to understand the Old Testament and why God created Jesus to be the Messiah.Jesus the Messiah said in Matthew 5:17

"Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil." (King James Version)

and now we asking you, whom we shall believe Jesus or you ?

He said that he didn't come to destroy the law - the law of the old testament -

but you tell us now that we completely misunderstand and He Destroy the law... !

whom is the right, you or Jesus ????

but lets forget anything right now, because we need a confirmation for this
"God created Jesus to be the Messiah"
Do you believe that Jesus the Messiah was a creature of God ?
this is the first question, the second one
Are you from Jehovah's Witnesses ?

[أسد الدين]

This is the Old Testament and is not Christianity. Christianity is living as Christ - Christlikeness. This is the Old Covenant - the blood of Jesus brought the New Covenant. You completely misunderstand Christianity altogether. You must read the New Testament to understand the Old Testament and why God created Jesus to be the Messiah.Well!!

1 - You said that the Old Testament is not Christianity, but Jesus Christ contradicted it.

He said in Matthew 5:
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

that means that all laws in the Old Testament are not destroyed, and proves to us that all this passages in post nr.4 are Christian Laws and they must believe in it.

2 - Jesus Christ said in the New Testament:
27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

[افضل العمرين]

thx brothers
اسد الدين و ابو حفص
God bless you

[افضل العمرين]

هذا كان ردها على الاخ اسد الدين والاخ ابو حفص




You do not understand neither what is being said in the Old Testament nor what Jesus is saying.
Jesus is talking about "the law"........ The law is summed up in the 10 commandments - Jesus fulfilled the law and taught that man cannot live up to the law because of sin and man's great need for God to bring reconciliation and help man to live Holy. This was done through the blood of Jesus (the Lamb of God) and the giving of the Holy Spirit.

Here are the 10 commandments & some things Jesus said regarding them:

Commandment 1 "You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve" (Mat 4:10). "You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the first and the great commandment" (Mat 22:37). "And you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength. This is the first commandment" (Mk 12:30). "You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve" (Luke 4:8).

Commandment 2 "You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve" (Mat 4:10). "You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve" (Luke 4:8). "God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth" (John 4:24). "But I have a few things against you, because you have there those who hold the doctrine of Balaam...to eat things sacrificed to idols" (Rev 2:14). "Nevertheless, I have a few things against you, because you allow...My servants to...eat things sacrificed to idols" (Rev 2:20).

Commandment 3 "Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men" (Mat 12:31). "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts,...blasphemies. These are the things which defile a man" (Mat 15:19-20).

Commandment 4 "What man is there among you who has one sheep, and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will not lay hold of it and lift it out? Of how much more value then is a man than a sheep? Therefore, it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath" (Mat 12:11-12). "And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath" (Mat 24:20); there would be no reason to pray this if the Sabbath was not going to be in existence. "And He said to them, 'The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath'" (Mk 2:27); this verse tells all who will see which day is the Lord's Day. "And when the Sabbath had come, He began to teach in the synagogue" (Mk 6:2). "And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read" (Luke 4:16). "Then He went down to Capernaum, a city of Galilee, and was teaching them on the Sabbaths" (Luke 4:31). "The Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath...Is it lawful on the Sabbath to do good or to do evil, to save life or to destroy?" (Luke 6:5,9). "But the ruler of the synagogue answered with indignation, because Jesus had healed on the Sabbath...The Lord then answered him and said, 'Hypocrite...So ought not this woman...be loosed from this bond on the Sabbath?'" (Luke (13:14-16). "'Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?'...And they could not answer Him regarding these things" (Luke 14:3,6). "are you angry with Me because I made a man completely well on the Sabbath?" (John 7:23).

Commandment 5 "For God commanded saying, 'Honor your father and your mother' and 'He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death'" (Mat 15:4). "Honor your father and your mother" (Mat 19:19). "Honor your father and your mother" (Mk 7:10). "Honor your father and your mother" (Mk 10:19). "You know the commandments:...Honor your father and your mother" (Luke 18:20).

Commandment 6 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not murder', and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment. But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment" (Mat 5:21-22). "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders...These are the things which defile a man" (Mat 15:19-20). "You shall not murder" (Mat 19:18). "...murders...All these evil things come from within and defile a man" (Mk 7:21,23). "Do not murder" (Mk 10:19). "You know the commandments:...Do not murder" (Luke 18:20).

Commandment 7 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not commit adultery'. But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart" (Mat 5:27-28). "But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery" (Mat 5:32). "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts...adulteries, fornications...These are the things which defile a man" (Mat 15:19-20). "And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery, and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery" (Mat 19:9). "You shall not commit adultery" (Mat 19:18). "...adulteries, fornications...All these evil things come from within and defile a man" (Mk 7:21,23). "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her. And if a woman divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery" (Mk 10:11-12). "Do not commit adultery" (Mk 10:19). "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced from her husband commits adultery" (Luke 16:18). "You know the commandments: Do not commit adultery" (Luke 18:20). "'Teacher, this woman was caught in adultery'...And Jesus said to her...'sin no more'" (John 8:4,11). "Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation" (Rev 2:22).

Commandment 8 "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts...thefts...These are the things which defile a man" (Mat 15:19-20). "You shall not steal" (Mat 19:18). "It is written, 'My house shall be called a house of prayer', but you have made it a den of thieves" (Mat 21:13). "...thefts...All these evil things come from within and defile a man" (Mk 7:22-23). "Do not steal" (Mk 10:19). "You know the commandments:... Do not steal" (Luke 18:20).

Commandment 9 "Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, 'You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform your oaths to the Lord. But I say to you, do not swear at all" (Mat 5:33-34). "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts...false witness...These are the things which defile a man" (Mat 15:19-20). "You shall not bear false witness" (Mat 19:18). "Do not bear false witness" (Mk 10:19). "You know the commandments:...Do not bear false witness" (Luke 18:20). "And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars" (Rev 2:2).

Commandment 10 "Do not worry about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink, nor about your body, what you will put on" (Mat 6:25). "For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts...These are the things which defile a man" (Mat 15:19-20). "...covetousness...All these evil things come from within and defile a man" (Mk 7:22-23).
"I have kept My Father's commandments" (John 15:10).

So it is clear that Jesus taught everyone of the ten commandments and that he also kept them.

[افضل العمرين]

1 - Yes, Jesus is the Messiah
2 - No, I am not a "Jehovah's Witness" if you are refering to the cult who teaches false teachings. Jehovah is the name of God however, the cult "Jehovah's Witness" are not Christian: http://www.carm.org/jehovahs-witnesses

[افضل العمرين]

اشكر الجميع في تعاونهم

[افضل العمرين]

ارجو مساعدتي في الرد على تلك الفتاة النصرانية اخوتي

[د/مسلمة]

Again, I want you to look at this verse


KJV: Mat-5-17: Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.


The prophets means Moses law, which prescribed apostasy in Deuteronomy-13

So, according to your faith, Jesus would not destroy Moses law which prescribed apostasy




Now, I've got a question after reading this verse:

KJV: Colossians-1-15: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature

Is Jesus a creator or a creature?