[د/ عبد الرحمن]

الرد على أقدم وثيقة تثبت صلب المسيح

بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
قال أحد الجهال

اقتباس كلنا نعرف ان هناك كل يوم برديات ومخطوطات تكتشف لنص العهد الجديد اقدم بردية اكتشفت الى الان هى بردية بتحمل رقم 64 وهى اجزاء لانجيل متى هذة البردية ليست فقط تثبت رسولية انجيل متى وانه يرجع لعصر الرسل بل انها تثبت ان الكنيسة الاولى والوثائق الاولى للمسيحية الرسولية النقية قدمت صورة يسوع المصلوب هذة الوثيقة تم تأريخها على عدة مراحل يذكرهم لنا العالم كومفورت وبارت فى كتابهم نص اقدم مخطوطات للعهد الجديد وبكل امانة سانقل الدراسات الباليوغرافية التى طبقت على هذة البردية In light of the shared physical characteristics of these manu******s, we can now take up the question of their date. P64 was originally given a third-century date by Charles Huleatt, the one who donated the manu****** to Magdalen College. The papyrologist A. S. Hunt studied the fragments and dated them to the early fourth century. In reaction to this late dating, Colin Roberts published the manu******, dating it to ca. 200.14 Carsten Thiede has dated it to the second half of the first century.15 Thus, the manu****** has been dated progressively earlier. Hunt was too conservative in his dating, as was typical for much of his dating of New Testament papyri. His fourth-century date needed adjustment, and this was done quite thoroughly by Colin Roberts, who noted that the handwriting of P64 is a precursor to the “Biblical Uncial” of the third and fourth centuries. According to Roberts, the lettering in P64 corresponds most closely with that found in P. Oxy. 843, the handwriting of which is clearly a precursor to the Biblical Uncial lettering of the third and fourth centuries. However, P. Oxy. 843 differs from P64 in that the writing is slightly slanted and the omega (ω) is flat,16 as is common in third-century hands. Nonetheless, P. Oxy. 843 was dated by Grenfell and Hunt to ca. 200. Similar hands are exhibited in P. Oxy. 405 (ca. 200), P. Oxy. 1620 (second to third century), and P. Oxy. 1819 (second century). Thus, Roberts dated the manu****** to ca. 200, and this date was confirmed by three eminent papyrologists: Harold Bell, T. C. Skeat, and E. G. Turner.17 However, it would seem justifiable to date it earlier than ca. 200 because its style predates P. Oxy. 843. The question is, how much earlier? Thiede posits a first-century date for P64 based primarily on his observation that some of the lettering is distinctly similar to that found in the Greek Minor Prophets Scroll 8HevXIIgr from Nahal Hever, which has been dated by various scholars between 50 b.c. and a.d. 50. He observed that several of the letters (α, ε, ι, ο, ρ) are identical or nearly identical, whereas others are distinctly dissimilar (η). However, the overall appearance of the lettering in 8HevXIIgr is earlier than that in P64/P67. By comparison, the lettering in P64/P67 is much more nearly identical to that of P. Oxy. 661 (as noted above) than to 8HevXIIgr. Thiede also notes similarities with the papyri in the ****** of Herculaneum (dated no later than a.d. 79) and the Greek Qumran fragment of Leviticus pap4QLXXLeva. The Herculaneum manu******s display an earlier form of calligraphy, and pap4QLXXLeva, though exhibiting similarities in many individual letters, is much earlier in its overall appearance (Roberts dated it to the late second century b.c.). Nevertheless, seeing similarities with earlier manu******s, Thiede suggests an earlier date for P64/P67: The prevailing tendency to date material of a nature comparable to Magdalen Gr. 17 to a period even preceding the earliest possible date of Matthew’s gospel suggests, with all due caution, the possibility of redating the fragments from Oxford and Barcelona—which are, after all, definitely Matthean—to a period somewhat earlier than the late second century previously assigned to them. Certainty will remain elusive, of course.18 In another publication, Thiede posits that the “earlier” date could be as early as the middle of the first century, even a pre–a.d. 66 date.19 But he offers no new or compelling paleographic evidence for this date. (See the discussion below for other paleographic comparisons.) 14 Roberts, “An Early Papyrus,” 233, 237. 15 Carsten Peter Thiede, “Papyrus Magdalen Greek 17 (Gregory-Aland P64): A Reappraisal,” Zeitschrift für Papyrologie und Epigraphik 105 (1995): 13–20; reprinted, Tyndale Bulletin 46.1 (1995): 29–42. 16 An analysis of P. Oxy. 843 confirms this. Many of the letters are shaped the same, but this Oxyrhynchus manu****** is not as close in style to P64 or P67 as P. Oxy. 661 is. 17 Roberts, “An Early Papyrus,” 235–37. 18 Thiede, “Papyrus Magdalen Greek 17, ” Tyndale Bulletin 46.1 (1995): 37. 19 Carsten P. Thiede and Matthew d’Ancona, Eyewitness to Jesus: Amazing New Manu****** Evidence about the Origin of the Gospels (New York: Doubleday, 1996), 125. Comfort, P. W., & Barrett, D. P. (2001). The text of the earliest New Testament Greek manu******s (A corrected, enlarged ed. of The complete text of the earliest New Testament manu******s) (50). Wheaton, Ill.: Tyndale House. العالم كرستن بيتر ثيدا ارجع تاريخ هذة المخطوطة لمنتصف القرن الاول الميلادى وربما قبل عام 66 ميلادية هو قارن شكل الحروف فى هذة البردية بنظيرتها من مخطوطات قمران اليونانية ووجد ان حروف هذة البردية تعود لنفس هذا الزمن وبذلك تعد اقدم وثيقة مسيحية على الاطلاق تعود لكنيسة الرسل انفسهم هذة البردية تحوى اعداد من انجيل متى الاصحاح 26 ما ساركز عليه هو ماورد فى هذة المخطوطة من العدد 31 الى العدد33 وهذة هى نصها من نفس الكتاب αυτοις ο ι̅ς̅❏ π̣αν[τες υμεις σκανδαλισθη[σεσθε❏ εν εμοι εν τ[η νυκτι ταυτη γ̣ε̣γ̣[ραπται [γαρ παταξω τον ποι] [μενα και διασκορπι] [σθησονται τα προβα] [τα της ποιμνης 32μετα] [δε το εγερθηναι με] π̣ρ̣ο̣α̣[ξω❏ υμας εις τη̅ ̅] γαλειλαιαν 33α[ποκρι θεις δε ο πετρος ε[ιπε̅ ̅ ❏ ed pr: ι̅η̅ [̠Indicates conjectural reconstruction of the beginning or ending of a manu******, or, within the tran******ions, letters or words most likely to have been in the original manu******. ❏ ed pr: σκανδα[λισθησεσθε ❏ ed pr: [προαξω Comfort, P. W., & Barrett, D. P. (2001). The text of the earliest New Testament Greek manu******s (A corrected, enlarged ed. of The complete text of the earliest New Testament manu******s) (70). Wheaton, Ill.: Tyndale House. 26: 31 حينئذ قال لهم يسوع كلكم تشكون في في هذه الليلة لانه مكتوب اني اضرب الراعي فتتبدد خراف الرعية 26: 32 و لكن بعد قيامي اسبقكم الى الجليل 26: 33 فاجاب بطرس و قال له و ان شك فيك الجميع فانا لا اشك ابدا هذة هى اقدم وثيقة وصلت لنا كلام يسوع من منتصف القرن الاول يقول فيها يسوع انى فى ذلك اللية سيتم المكتوب وسيضرب الراعى وتبدد خرافى الرعية وبعد قيامته سيسبق تلاميذه الى الجليل فهل اصدق التاريخ والعلم الذى اثبت بان هذة هى تعاليم يسوع من القرن الاول انه سيضرب وسيقوم من بين الاموات ام اصدق رجل بيقول بفكرة الشبيه الغنوصية ؟؟؟؟؟؟؟ والحكم للعقلاء .............

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